Registered: Sep 2003

Final Say On Fps

Hello. I am starting this thread to shed some light on the FPS issues regarding CS 1.6 once and for all. This post may seem redundant to some users but, all the other FPS threads that I've seen were either inconsistent or simply "lost in the shuffle". Let me get started with my computer setup and problems:

CPU: 866 Mhz Pentium III
RAM: 256 MB PC-133 SDRAM
VIDEO CARD: geForce 2 Ultra
WINDOWS VERSION: Windows 98 SE
DIRECT X: Direct X 9.0b
VIDEO DRIVERS: nVidia 45.23 Reference Drivers
VIDEO METHOD: OpenGL
GAME RESOLUTION: 1024x768
GAME COLOR DEPTH: 32-bit
V-SYNC: ON
ADDITIONAL FEATURES: 4xAA
INTERNET CONNECTION: Cable

In CS 1.5, I got max FPS no matter what. My computer NEVER slowed down except when there were a large number of smoke grenades on screen. It was smooth, enjoyable gaming all the way. After installation of CS 1.6, my FPS droped substantially. It wouldn't matter what map I was on, some parts of the map would give me choppy FPS. Smoke grenades would render my FPS to unplayable levels. I would get major slowdowns whenever there were more then 5 people on screen or intense firefights. In some circumstances and on certain levels, my FPS would drop so low, it would make the game simply unplayable and I would close Counter-Strike. Here is what I have tried to remedy my FPS problem:

Switched to a variety of resolution and color depth combinations
Turned V-SYNC off
Turned AA off
Tweaked my video card settings in Windows
Tweaked my BIOS settings
MASSIVE TWEAKING IN THE CS CONSOLE WITH EVERY COMMAND

After all these changes and tweaking, I got a very MINIMAL FPS increase, nothing substantial enough to warrant a "fix" or "remedy".

As of now, I do not know if the FPS issue in CS 1.6 is isolated or widespread but, I can tell you this. I spent most of the day yesterday and today researching this topic on the internet, I have visited numerous CS sites and entered there forums. What I found was consistent, in every forum there was at least ONE AT THE VERY MINIMUM topic about FPS drops in 1.6. This leaves me to believe that this problem is affecting more people then most think. Now I know that my computer is on the lower end of the PC gaming spectrum, but I also know from reading forums and player responses in Counter-Strike, that people with much more powerful computers and video cards are experiencing FPS drops as well, sometimes severe. After careful thinking, I think I have come to a conclusion:

The graphical updates (textures and models) that were implemented into the CS 1.6 engine are UNOPTIMIZED.

I understand that VALVe is a very busy company, with the release of STEAM and CS 1.6 along with the development of Half-Life 2, they must have there hands tied. That is my most logical explanation as to why they did not have the time nor resources to fully optimize the CS engine. Hopfully this thread will get the attention of somebody in association with VALVe software, so they can come up with a possible fix in the near future. Here is what I want the people who care to do. If you are experiencing and FPS issues with CS 1.6, please list the following specifications and FPS problems you have:

CPU
RAM
VIDEO CARD
WINDOWS VERSION
DIRECT X
VIDEO DRIVERS
VIDEO METHOD
GAME RESOLUTION
GAME COLOR DEPTH
V-SYNC
ADDITIONAL FEATURES
INTERNET CONNECTION

Like I mentioned in the beginning of the thread, there have been other posts started about this topic but, they were inconsistent or did not display the full information needed to correctly diagnose this problem. I think with enough participation in this thread, we can get the attention of somebody associated with VALVe and hopfully get this issue solved. Thank you guys for taking the time to read through this horribly long post, I just felt I needed to be specific. Thanks again!

SIDE NOTE TO EVERYONE WHO SAY THEY HAVE NO FPS DROPS
PURE SPECULATION

Usually when I see someone post on a FPS topic saying they have no FPS drops AT ALL, they were not specific enough. This leaves me to believe:

1) They cannot distinguish good FPS from bad FPS
2) Their FPS counter is reading wrong
3) There staring at a wall or playing by themselves
4) They don't know the difference between LAG and FPS
5) They are running the game at a horribly low resolution/color
6) They have a supercomputer (lol)
7) They have the luck of the Irish (lol)
8) They are lieing (lmao)

Like I said above, pure speculation. If my side note offends anybody, I am sorry, it was pure speculation. Anyways, thanks again! Let's get this issue solved!

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Registered: Sep 2003

i uninstalled every ATI driver and program completely, then installed the old catalyst 3.5 drivers and cs runs better for me.

abit-kd7
amd xp 2000+
radeon 9700 pro
winxp pro sp1

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Registered: Sep 2003

amd 2200
1gb ddr ram
256 mb ddr Gforce 4 graphic card
2mb internet connection
XP pro
Direct X 9.0b
nVidia 45.23 Reference Drivers
OpenGL
1024x768
32-bit

FPS: 99-100 no lagg only on servers in usa (im in europe)

only had less than 99 once (75 FPS) but that was due to server restrictions.

Rgds
49th

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Registered: Sep 2003

CPU athlon xp 1800
ram 256 megs ddram
video card ati radeon 7200 64 meg agp
windows 2000
direct x 9.0b
video driver ati2dvag.dll
method opengl
game res 1024/768
internet connection dsl

I dont always have bad fps but inferno, chateau and airstrip are bad in some places (drops to 5). fps is almost never as good as it used to be (100)

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Registered: Sep 2003

First off - I know you asked us to post specs if we are having issues, but I thought I would post mine as well in case it helps. I'm not having issues.

It's important to know the difference (For anyone who may post to this thread) between network lag, causing choppiness and video/CPU lag causing FPS to drop. So be sure to report the actual FPS, and not just that it's just choppy. (To see the FPS, pull up the console in game and type net_graph 3. To turn it off, type net_graph 0 in console) My specs:

CPU Intel Celeron 1.8Ghz
RAM 512MB PC2100 DDR RAM
VIDEO CARD MSI GeForce 4 TI4200 64MB
WINDOWS VERSION Windows XP Home - Updated with latest downloads from windowsupdate
DIRECT X 9.0
VIDEO DRIVERS Not sure of the version offhand. Downloaded the latest one 2 days ago from NVIDIA
VIDEO METHOD OpenGL
GAME RESOLUTION Desktop at 1024*768, game looks like it is running in 800*600 ever since steam started - haven't tried increasing
GAME COLOR DEPTH Whatever steam set it to, unchanged since updating to steam
V-SYNC Whatever is default
ADDITIONAL FEATURES None
INTERNET CONNECTION High speed DSL (130k/s downstream and 13k/s upstream max)
MOTHER BOARD ASUS P4B533-VM (I'm using the on board sound)
FPS Constant 60FPS, even in smoke (I have not made the change that allows it to go above 60FPS)

Firebreak

P.S. My game does get choppy from time to time, but when this happens I notice my ping has jumped up. My FPS is still high and everything is smooth except other players jump around the screen like they are teleporting. (Common symptom of network lag) I have noticed that pings seem to be a bit higher since 1.6, but nothing too major.

Last edited by Firebreak on 09-27-2003 at 11:26 PM

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Registered: Sep 2003

I've noticed FPS drops in my games too. Nothing so drastic as to make it unplayable. It only happens when there are several people on the screen or there's ANY smoke grenades at all. Here's my specs:

CPU: P4 2.6 GhZ
RAM: 512 MB RAM
VIDEO CARD: ATI Radeon 9800 Pro (slightly overclocked)
WINDOWS VERSION: Windows XP Pro
DIRECT X: 9.0b
VIDEO DRIVERS: Latest Catalyst Drivers. 3.7 I believe.
VIDEO METHOD: OpenGL
GAME RESOLUTION: 1024x768
GAME COLOR DEPTH: 32 BIT
V-SYNC: Off
INTERNET CONNECTION: Cable

When I first started tweaking my video card I ran a little test. I was in de_aztec in a single player game and so long as I was staring at a wall my fps stayed at a constant 150. When I moved it dropped slightly and went back up. There was a spot at the bridge bomb site where it dropped significantly. I threw a smoke outside of the bridge room and my FPS dropped to 75. Almost a 80 fps drop. I haven't been playing long enough to really notice but that's awfully huge. I have several screenshots where my fps was at 150 I walk into a smoke and it drops to 65-80.

My settings have changed slightly since then by the way.

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Registered: Sep 2003

Interesting cspray. Why a ATI Radeon 9800 PRO would drop as low as 65 FPS in single player puzzles me. Don't get me wrong, 65 FPS is most certainly playable and smoke grenades due tend to drop performance quite a bit in most cases, but you would expect FPS results from a 9800 PRO to be higher with V-SYNC off. If I'm not mistaken, ATI Radeon 9800 PRO is the best consumer video card out there? Anways, I appreciate your response, some questions though. Do your FPS ever drop below 65? Have you ever tried turning V-SYNC on? If you have the time could you possibly post some results from a typical multiplayer game session? It would be much appreciated. Also, for the users who are not experiencing any FPS drops, I envy you (hehe). Anways, thanks for your participation. Hopfully if there are FPS issues (which I still think there is) in CS 1.6, someone at VALVe will see this post, maybe a fix is on the way! Thanks guys!

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Registered: Sep 2003

Sure. I'll see if I can't get a couple demos going. Maybe a screenshot or two with my current settings. I'll also include my config in the zip file.

It is weird that I'm getting such drastic FPS drops with a high end video card. I'm thinking that part of it is my RAM. Although I have about an average amount it definitely doesn't suit my system. I'm going to get some more just as soon as I can get some more money.

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Registered: Sep 2003

AMD athlon XP barton 2800+
1giga of DDR pc 2700
Gforce4 TI 4600 128
Nvidia detonator 51.75 (beta one)
Direct X 9.b
win XP Pro Sp1
Video Mode: Open GL
internet connexion : cable 1024/256

playing at 800x600 at 100fps constant. (i play usually on 800 cause i like this better)
or
playing at 1152 at 100fps constant.
or
playing at 1280x1024 at 85fps constant. (screen doesn't support higher)

and i play with vsynch ON and Nvrefreshtool. and i've tried all those resolution 1 hour of each. with my clan on ou clan-server, and some of them have similar comments.

and only fps drop when there's is like 5 smoke grenades on screen (100fps to 80-85fps) that doesn't happen a lot

quote:

---

1) They cannot distinguish good FPS from bad FPS
2) Their FPS counter is reading wrong
3) There staring at a wall or playing by themselves
4) They don't know the difference between LAG and FPS
5) They are running the game at a horribly low resolution/color
6) They have a supercomputer (lol)
7) They have the luck of the Irish (lol)
8) They are lieing (lmao)

---

1) Nope
2) Nope either
3) lol funny one
4) I do know the difference
5) Nope
6) Maybe HL is a 4 year old game so no supercomputer is needed but i guess if i don't drop fps then it is a super !
7) Hum... no comment...
8) Why lying about this :S if the game would run bad i would be the first to flame. but it isn't

guess i could make a list for people who get fps drops but i would not make speculations like you do Why people who say that they have no fps drops lie?

People have fps drops, some don't, then people should see how they run their computer and customize it or what grafik cards they have. Mine is well installed and runs smoothly and CS either

Some people just mess too bad with their Windows that it is a really big mess :S

Last edited by Fantomas666 on 09-28-2003 at 12:59 AM

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Registered: Sep 2003

Thanks for your post Fantomas666. Yes, you do seem to be running CS flawlessly. One thing that caught my eye were the beta drivers you were running. Maybe super optimized? I have a question too, what color depth are you running CS at? Also, are you playing CS 1.5 or CS 1.6 (lol j/k). Anyways, I envy your FPS, I wish I got those kind of FPS at those resolutions. Anyways thanks for your response, I appreciate it.

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Registered: Sep 2003

AMD athlon xp 2200 (1.67gh)
512 ddr ram
geforce4ti 4400 128
Nvidia 45.23 geforce drivers
Direct x 8.1 I think
Win xp pro w/sp1
Open GL : 1024x768, highest colour depth, and my card's graphics settings are maxed
oh and vsync on

Now, obviously I had absolutely no problem in 1.5, even if there were 6 smoke grenades on screen (I have all ingame cs graphics settings maxed too, meaning best looking smoke)

Now in 1.6, I come within 25 feet of a smoke grenade and my fps drops to 10!!!! Since when is a system like mine not enough to play a halflife 1 mod to its fullest capabilites! This really annoys me and I dont feel I should have to turn down my graphics settings to play counter-strike. I mean.....its counter-strike! We are not talking battlefield 1942 here.

Last edited by teamrcs|rasta on 09-28-2003 at 01:42 AM

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Registered: Sep 2003

Your welcome

hum i guess those detonator are super optimised, but i really don't know. They are the next detonator release, but there's no realese date at this time. But it might come from those beta Some people i know ran some benchmark and it saiud that they was a gain of quality (uh hope it does make sense, exscuse my bad english, but i'm french ).

and i play at highest colour depth (32 bits).

and i play at CS 1.6 (lol)

teamcs | rasta: You hsould try to update tyour direct X 8.1 is not the new one. May solve the problems or may not give it a try

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Registered: Sep 2003

CPU 1703 mhz pentium 4
RAM 512 mb SDRAM
VIDEO CARD geforce 4 ti4200
WINDOWS VERSION XP pro sp1 (woops)
DIRECT X 9
VIDEO DRIVERS 45.23
VIDEO METHOD openGL
GAME RESOLUTION 640x480
GAME COLOR DEPTH 16
V-SYNC OFF
ADDITIONAL FEATURES Refreshlock
INTERNET CONNECTION cable <512

100 fps in 1.5
30-60 fps in 1.6
Smoke isn't thick, can see though it. No extra drops on smoke.
Probebly need to buy a "better" pc.

(better in xtreme good.)

Last edited by Arn1e on 09-28-2003 at 02:20 AM

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Registered: Sep 2003

Hu? where did you get SP2 for win XP, it's not out yet :S ? or if it is then where?

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Registered: Jul 2003

CPU: 1455 mhz AthlonXP 1600+
RAM: 512MB SDRam
Video Card: GeForce4 Ti4200 (128MB)
Windows Version: XP Pro
DirectX 9.0b
Video Drivers: 45.23
Video Method: OpenGL
Game Resolution: 800x600
Game Color Depth: 16-bit
V-Sync: OFF
Additional Features: NVRefreshFix
Internet Connection: Cable (can download @ speeds up to 500KB/sec)

100 fps in 1.5 all the time, no exceptions,
down to 30 fps quite often in 1.6.

I have also tried using Team zEx's 1.6 fps guide to no help, along with dumming down my settings to nothing, I still get a massive fps drop. If I'm standing, in a single player game, in the T spawn on Aztec, my fps is 50 there, not moving or doing anything. One thing I have noticed is that my fps always goes to its lowest when I move my view left or right. Also, I have smokes on lowest quality. 2 smokes takes my fps below 10 fps.

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